Transcript
[0:00] The richest place in Jesus's
time and in Buddha's time in
[0:05] Eurasia. Is India always. So in
the Persian empires were always
[0:11] made traveled through the Middle
East very possible from India to
[0:14] the Mediterranean, and that
Jesus would go and would
[0:17] encounter some kind of spiritual
science, I think is very doable.
[0:22] And there is a tradition that he
went to Ladakh there was a tomb
[0:26] of Esau there and so on.
[0:37] Like to welcome to the show,
Robert Thurman, how're you doing
[0:39] Robert?
[0:40] I'm doing fine. Alex, nice to
talk to you.
[0:42] A pleasure. Pleasure is all
mine, my friend, I am a fan of
[0:46] your work. I am fascinated with
Tibetan Buddhism, and also your
[0:52] work on compassion, and, and
trying to bring the world
[0:55] together and awaken the world
with your work and everything
[0:58] you've been doing throughout
your life and career. And we're
[1:01] going to talk a little bit about
your book wisdom is bliss, your
[1:04] new book, that's out as well.
But my very first question to
[1:09] you, Bob, is What initially
attracted you to Tibetan
[1:13] Buddhism? Because I'm assuming
you weren't born in Tibet. So
[1:17] no, it's not something you were
born into.
[1:21] I was born on 89th Street.
Although that could be Tibet,
[1:27] you never know. It's like New
York City is detached from the
[1:30] hinterland, you know. By now, I
wasn't born in this lifetime in
[1:35] Tibet. I was born out of other
lifetimes in Tibet, Mongolia, I
[1:40] noticed yours, and not his
lifetime. But what it was I was
[1:45] actually attracted to Indian
Buddhism, like original
[1:47] Buddhism. But when I got to
India in 1962, for the first
[1:52] time, I realized that the people
who really knew in Buddhism were
[1:57] the Tibetans, because the
Indians with the, you know, the
[2:02] transformation of India under
first Islam, and then under
[2:05] British Christianity, you know,
present Islam and then British
[2:09] Christianity. They lost the
Buddhist monasteries. And there,
[2:13] there were still yogic Buddhism,
sort of a little bit as a
[2:17] territory, but big institutions
that had been there for 1700
[2:21] years from last time, were gone,
you know, because the
[2:25] relationally, the Muslims didn't
see any need for a bunch of
[2:27] useless monks. Big, and they had
huge universities, you know,
[2:34] like 10 20,000 people. And all
over India, actually, it was a
[2:39] huge institution in India, and
it and they also identified as
[2:43] sort of not believing in a
creator, which would be correct,
[2:47] although they were wrong, and
Buddhists are wrong when they
[2:50] present themselves as not
believing in the existence of
[2:53] deities, because God because we
definitely do believe in the
[2:57] existence of gods. But they just
don't believe there was one that
[3:01] you can blame the whole shootin
match for, you know. That was,
[3:07] that wasn't good or rejected
that one and it actually God
[3:10] Himself, the one in Buddha's
time, whose name was Brahma, you
[3:15] know, ma BRH, a Brahma, he said
to Buddha, look, please tell
[3:21] people, I didn't create it, and
I'm not omnipotent. I'm just
[3:25] really great. I'm powerful. I
love people I want them to do
[3:28] well. I want them to be grateful
and worship me when they're
[3:31] doing great. When horrible
things happen to them. I don't
[3:35] want them blaming me. I, you
know, we're all in it together.
[3:39] And so please tell them that we
have our mutual karma. And it's
[3:43] not just me, you know, because,
you know, they knew Brahma knew
[3:47] that sort of problem with
omnipotent monotheism is that
[3:53] you know, if things go wrong for
you in a really bad way, who's
[3:57] to blame? Power to do it and he
did it to you. So it's like Elie
[4:02] weaselly, you know, he, he hated
God for 50 years. He was.
[4:05] Luckily he forgave him before he
passed away. He did, actually.
[4:09] And he wrote an op ed in the New
York Times about forgiving him,
[4:13] not that he welcomes is
horrible. He forgave God, he
[4:17] figured God is going to work it
out in some other way. For all
[4:20] the souls you know, there was
something I think, I guess I
[4:24] don't remember exactly his
wording, but he did forget,
[4:28] which was really good. And I it
made me and that I've been
[4:31] working on that for a long time.
And I forgive God to you know,
[4:37] really, when I was little, I was
annoyed with God. Yeah, because
[4:42] I went to a Presbyterian Church.
His son, I was told, you know,
[4:49] it's like, really not local,
well, above the wall. And then I
[4:57] know there's theology and
religion scholar and all that
[5:00] All right, I see the beauty of
Christianity nowadays very much
[5:03] Buddhism helped me see it. But
initially, I had it on for God
[5:08] like, No, I don't like that guy.
[5:10] Well, yeah, I mean, being a
recovering Catholic myself, I, I
[5:16] was always I was always upset at
the way they portray Jesus. You
[5:20] know, anytime I saw Buddha, he's
either happy or peace. Those are
[5:25] the two images, I get jenever
get an angry Buddha or a Buddha
[5:29] that is in pain of some sort. So
that that wasn't because from my
[5:33] understanding, Buddhism is not a
fear based religion.
[5:38] Fears Buddha's, okay, but
they're not and people translate
[5:45] them as wrathful. But I don't
like them because I don't
[5:49] consider that I just call them
fierce. You know, it's like a
[5:51] mom screaming at a car stop, you
know, her and her babies in
[5:56] front of it or some take your I
mean, like ferocious with
[5:58] screaming, you know? So there's
a fear there are fierce Buddhas
[6:01] in the esoteric thing, you know.
[6:03] What are? What are the? So what
are the fears that Buddha and
[6:08] Buddhism what are some of the
fears? Like?
[6:10] In other words, well, the reason
that you have the fierce
[6:15] Buddha's is in the esoteric is
they're kind of considered to
[6:20] help you deal with Eros and
Thanotos, especially Thanotos.
[6:25] In the subconscious, you know,
Freud found Eros, and you know,
[6:29] and Thanotos like the one in the
movies, you know, the movie, you
[6:34] know? Yes, of course, we all
have that, you know,
[6:39] murderousness dark, dark side,
in our consciousness in our
[6:43] unconscious. And we also have
the logical side, you know, the
[6:47] Eros side. And we also have a
confused side, which he didn't
[6:50] really notice as much, but he
was very much into Eros and
[6:54] Thanatos. So his theories make
people scared of them their own
[6:58] unconscious, actually, I'm
worried that you know, Dr.
[7:01] Jekyll and Mr. Hyde sort of
routine, you know,
[7:03] So those fears are internal
fears.
[7:05] And he's aware of that, but it
doesn't think it's not overcome
[7:09] bubble by a person. And it
thinks, thinks that the purpose
[7:13] of of psychotherapy at a deep
level of spiritual psychotherapy
[7:17] that goes all the way is to
conquer those negative things in
[7:21] the unconscious, so that they
don't drag you in a bad way when
[7:25] you're reborn. Because, you
know, some of the concern was
[7:28] that common sense, it doesn't
consider that Mr. Cole or boo, I
[7:31] think it's just, it's like the
New York Thruway still out there
[7:35] going up next to the river, you
know, I believe that, but that's
[7:39] not a big mystical thing. To me.
It's like common sense. Like,
[7:43] your life is like that for
Buddhists.
[7:44] So Bob, let me ask you, when did
you educate people? What are the
[7:48] origins of Buddhism in general?
And then the origins of Tibetan
[7:53] Buddhism? So when When did
Buddha actually, because again,
[7:56] I'm a recovering Catholic, so I
didn't study Buddha so much. So
[8:00] when I understood it's maybe
like three or 400 years before
[8:03] Christ. Is that Is that an
accurate time period?
[8:06] Five 600.
[8:08] Yeah, 5 or 600 years or prior.
[8:10] 562 BCE, okay. Sometimes people
push it and say it must be
[8:15] later, or it's controversial.
Even the Tibet se Buddha was
[8:19] born in the ninth century BCE,
before that before, right. But,
[8:24] but mainly, it put him in the
sixth century, the five hundreds
[8:27] before Christ. And he, but he,
his loving type teaching is the
[8:34] second wave of Buddhism called
the Mahayana, the universal
[8:38] vehicle that all beings will be
saved type of vehicle, right?
[8:42] Not just each individual by
themselves, but everybody that
[8:46] really emerges around the time
of Christ, actually. So there's
[8:48] a lot of link between the
Christian vision, the good, the
[8:52] wonderful Christian vision,
about how, you know, the bad
[8:58] stuff goes away eventually, you
know, and it's all good. God is
[9:04] good ultimately. And by the way,
what I what was said before
[9:08] about the that version of Jesus
that was not worshipped by
[9:11] Christians for 325. Correct.
Worship to crucified Christ,
[9:16] they knew he got crucified. And
therefore, he rose up from that,
[9:20] and he just showed that form he
suffered with beings to to
[9:25] redeem their suffering. But he
did, but they didn't worship
[9:28] that when they worship, there
isn't one. And the one they
[9:32] usually had when they had
images, according to art
[9:35] historians, is what they call
Christos pitta, gogos. Which
[9:39] means which doesn't mean Christ
the podcaster it means Christ,
[9:43] the teacher pedagogue in Greek,
you know?
[9:48] Right! It wasn't at that time,
if it's around 300 years after
[9:51] his death, isn't that time of
Constantine and the council, the
[9:55] Council of Nicaea so that it's
all part of the rebranding of
[9:59] Christianity that they did.
[10:00] It was the Roman conquering
thing.
[10:02] Yes, it was a Roman Catholic
Church. Yeah, that's why it's
[10:06] called Roman
[10:07] Any any form of the thing. You
know, the, you know, in fact,
[10:10] all the world religions mostly
get little twisted I think
[10:15] including Islam by the fact that
after the founder, you know,
[10:20] peace and love, and we're all
everything's cool and God is
[10:23] good and ultimate reality is
good. Some ruler like a Calif,
[10:29] or the Emperor of Rome or some
other Emperor comes along and
[10:33] says, no, no, I don't want you
guys to be that much at ease. I
[10:37] want people scared, because I
want to control them. So then
[10:40] they select things and they edit
and they hire religious scholars
[10:45] who are going to find the kind
of threatening things by the
[10:48] founders, you know, like, you
know, hell if you don't believe
[10:52] this, or that any other and all
the scary stuff, and they've
[10:54] posted out because they want to
frighten their population to
[10:58] keep them under control. You
know, I'm afraid.
[11:00] So when Buddha walked when when
Buddha was walking the earth,
[11:03] can you talk a little bit about
Buddha and his journey, I mean,
[11:07] I've read Siddhartha, I read
Siddhartha. So I understand why
[11:10] He was a wild guy, he had me
know his dad had was predicted
[11:16] by a holy man by psychic to his
dad, that if Buddha was to have,
[11:24] if Buddha was to stay in the
path, if he was to leave the
[11:29] palace and become a seeker, you
know, like a pilgrim or
[11:33] something, he would, he would be
famous, but he wouldn't conquer
[11:38] anything, and he wouldn't do the
job, you know, that his dad
[11:40] wanted him to do would be the
king, you know. And so he had
[11:43] to, if he saw any suffering in
the world, he would freak out
[11:47] because he was very intelligent
and sensitive. So the dad kept
[11:50] them in a really paradise kind
of really super for season for
[11:54] level, like really, even my
better than fourth season, and
[11:58] Paradise Island sort of
situation, supposedly, and, and
[12:02] then he discovered death, old
age, sickness, and so on. And he
[12:07] had in his 20s, and then he did
believe he went over the war,
[12:11] actually. And he found a higher
kind of enlightenment about the
[12:16] nature of life. And he found the
goodness of the universe.
[12:19] Basically, he went through
serious suffering, but he found
[12:21] the goodness of the universe.
And then he rebelled, and he
[12:24] would have been a king, but he
rebelled against all of that.
[12:27] And he founded a monastic, he
invented monasticism, actually,
[12:31] in other words, he created a
social space where people could
[12:35] drop out of their duties in the
caste system. And even women,
[12:39] which was very hard to do at
that time, because it was very
[12:42] patriarchal, Indian society, you
know, the women were the
[12:45] service, the slaves, like they
still are in many countries. And
[12:48] then he has big teaching, which
I liked. And this is what
[12:51] attracted me was that we human
beings have godlike
[12:56] intelligence, we can understand
ourselves and the world, we are
[13:00] capable of it. And that is
actually a purpose of our life
[13:03] is to really understand the
world. And when we do, we love
[13:07] it. We do and we love everybody,
when we really understand what
[13:12] life is we just, and we're not
afraid of death anymore, we
[13:16] realize that there's just a
doorway, from one body to
[13:19] another. And once we're at the
human level, not the crocodile
[13:23] level, but the human level, we
have, if we understand that we
[13:27] can just go better and better
and not just for ourselves, but
[13:31] we can also help others in the
most effective, incredibly
[13:34] effective way. And so a very
thing, you know, he was wrongly
[13:38] thought of by people when they
discovered it. But Buddha
[13:41] teaches suffering. So
everybody's supposed to suffer
[13:44] the previous Pope, you know,
right singer, and also, John
[13:48] Paul, on the right singers
advice. And then Pope Benedict,
[13:51] they were into, like, Oh, we're
so sorry for the Buddhists
[13:54] because they just have so
miserable. You know, because he
[13:57] taught me taught, because what
Buddha taught is like what
[14:00] Socrates taught members,
Socrates said, The unexamined
[14:04] life is not worth living. So
Buddha never said anything as
[14:07] pessimistic as that he said, he
an enlightened life will be
[14:11] frustrating, because you won't
know where you are. And you
[14:14] will, you will do the wrong
thing here and there and get
[14:17] yourself stuck in the mud. And
so on that problem, the the, the
[14:20] examined, life will become
enlightened, and then you will
[14:23] be really happy. And that was
the discovery. In other words,
[14:26] indeed, people don't follow.
Because they thought, Oh, that's
[14:30] great. Let's all suffer together
in a way. He just said, you're
[14:33] gonna be frustrated, you're
gonna be stressed out. If you
[14:37] think you're the center of the
universe, and you have this
[14:40] terrible problem that nobody
else agrees with you. Except
[14:45] Mom, where's your time? And then
on the honeymoon for a while,
[14:49] maybe if you're lucky.
Otherwise, everybody else thinks
[14:53] they had a senator. You know,
everybody who's done
[14:56] enlightened, but if you're going
to stand what you're not that
[15:00] you don't to exist, that's not
the issue, you just understand
[15:03] that the way you are is same as
others. And therefore your whole
[15:08] deal is to be interconnected and
all of them. And the ultimate
[15:12] thing is everyone loves
everyone. And then they don't
[15:16] have to molest them to show it,
they just love it. And then
[15:19] everybody has a really great
time. And that's where I think
[15:23] we're headed today, you know,
with with, especially, since
[15:28] there are so podcasters out
there helping. Really, yeah, you
[15:34] know, my dear friend, Lisa
Miller, did you ever?
[15:37] Never, I never interviewed her,
but I am aware of Lisa,
[15:40] She is and she is so amazing.
And she's covered improved. She
[15:44] was a psychiatrist said,
spirituality is critical. The
[15:48] psychiatrists, guys
spirituality, because they
[15:50] thought the church makes
everybody feel bad, you know,
[15:53] that synagogue, the church,
whatever institution, but the
[15:56] essence of spirituality does
something to the brain,
[15:59] believing in the goodness of the
universe, you know, feeling
[16:02] trust to the universe, that
something in the brain that bad
[16:06] immunizes, the sector of the of
the cortex, where serious
[16:11] depression creates like, a mess.
[16:14] Well, that's actually I think, I
think it was, Lisa, that what I
[16:16] had on the show a while ago that
was saying that any they did
[16:20] studies forgot if it was in
Princeton, or what college she
[16:23] was at, but they were saying
that if you believe in a higher
[16:27] power, rather, that'd be
religious, or spiritual,
[16:30] whatever that deity is, to us
[16:32] And more spiritual than
religious actually
[16:34] Correct, exactly. But if you
think of a higher, there is some
[16:37] higher power, you're like,
you're less likely to have
[16:40] suicide, you're less likely to
have depression, you're less
[16:42] likely to have so many things,
which is it's really
[16:47] fascinating. Bob going back to
Budda's journey
[16:51] So, that's what he taught, and
everybody loves it. And a lot of
[16:54] people dropped out. And then a
lot of people got more cooldown.
[16:58] And the and the women who joined
really flipped, and there were
[17:02] so there are some wonderful
poems I loved. I especially love
[17:04] the world. And I forgot her
name, many days where I forget,
[17:08] net. But she had said, Oh, wow,
I just had lunch under the tree.
[17:13] I didn't have to cook it,
somebody gave it to me, it was
[17:16] great. I only had one bowl, I
don't have to wash all the
[17:18] dishes. I just wipe this one
ball and put it back in my
[17:21] little sack. And I'm here on a
tree. And thank you Buddha, you
[17:25] liberated me from three crooked
things. The pestle, I used to
[17:29] have to pound the rice with the
house get my old bent over
[17:33] mother in law who used to abuse
me and making the hard time in
[17:36] the household and my hunchback
husband Nirvana, it's close
[17:43] enough.
[17:45] Just close to Nirvana as we're
getting.
[17:48] That's right. Yes. You know,
maybe she was in Nevada, who
[17:52] knows. But all she knew she was
you know, I actually really
[17:55] thinks we ought to Laurie, this
is nearby, but don't do more
[17:59] sort of sophisticated and
complex one is that this is life
[18:03] is totally great. In other
words, so tight is nirvana. But
[18:06] if we know it, if we don't know
it, we're going to struggle
[18:09] anyway. So that's my thought. So
then he taught that and it had a
[18:12] huge impact in India. And, you
know, it's sort of half of
[18:17] Hinduism. So therefore, they
think Buddha's the 90 emanation
[18:22] of God, you know, they didn't
have just the one Jesus many
[18:25] emanations of of their idea of
God, the visual version of it,
[18:29] at least. And so he's nine David
Tarr Vishnu after Krishna. And
[18:34] there are only 10. You know,
there's another one coming
[18:36] later, the Hindus think that and
that's that island, because he
[18:40] is very much, you know, created
a huge explosion in India. And
[18:45] then then the Tibetans ran into
it when they reached a high
[18:50] level of empire, about 1000
years later, where are the
[18:55] rulers decided this was boring
going on conquering people doing
[18:59] looting and pillaging, and,
besides being boring is very
[19:03] unstable, because my generals
want to somehow break away they
[19:07] don't want me to be the Emperor.
So it had a political reasoning
[19:11] to and they look around the
world and the China, India,
[19:15] Central Asia, the third
flourishing kingdoms are empires
[19:19] and everywhere, we're using
Buddhism to sort of enlist
[19:23] people in having a stake in the
country, you know, they have all
[19:27] medicine and all kinds of
sciences and psychology and
[19:29] related to that, so they decided
to switch to that like top down
[19:34] and they did around starting
around 600 and the end of that
[19:39] century 600 of the P AC or we
see a CE as we say religious is
[19:47] Common Era. And then that we can
there hold as a top down
[19:53] Imperials hanging because it
militarism lesson and then there
[19:56] was a big freak out about 200
years after that we're out
[20:00] They've kind of lost their
imperial control. But by that
[20:04] time, the Buddha's way of life
was pretty much infiltrated all
[20:07] around Tibet. So then after
about a 50 year hiatus, it came
[20:12] back very strong. And it took
them about 600 years. And then
[20:17] they completely abandoned
militarism, basically. And they
[20:19] could get away with that in
those days because of being up
[20:22] on the roof of the world. You
know, it's like a real, not much
[20:25] oxygen to have the oxygen up
there. 47% of the normal sea
[20:29] level oxygen up there, and very
big pasture clover and so forth
[20:32] mountains around them, you know,
so they got away with that till
[20:35] the 20th century. And, and
actually, they became quite
[20:39] strong, teaching Mongolian
Emperor's and Chinese emperors
[20:43] over the ages Nepali ones, to be
more cool with each other, you
[20:47] know, and have less warfare, but
they even got the Mongols to
[20:50] quit in the ground. 100 after
their huge empire, they got the
[20:55] Mongols to calm down.
[20:58] So let me ask you, that's a
fascinating , it's fascinating .
[21:00] It's fascinating that politics
always comes into play when
[21:04] there's religion or philosophy.
It's fascinating. Going back to
[21:08] Buddha and his journey, can you
explain a little bit about from
[21:13] when he left the palace and
discovered, he discovered death
[21:17] and, and aging and these in
these kinds of sufferings, and
[21:22] other things that he felt he
discovered, he went on a journey
[21:25] to enlightenment. And that's
something that a lot of people
[21:28] talk about is enlightenment. And
there's a, there's a version of
[21:33] that in Christianity, there's a
version of that and many, many
[21:36] different kinds of religions
have this concept of
[21:38] enlightenment, and especially
the yogi, In the yogic
[21:41] traditions as well. Yeah, he
wasn't a straight line. And he
[21:47] didn't just sit under a banyan
tree one day and just go, Oh, I
[21:50] get it. Now. There was a few ups
and downs, he took wrong paths.
[21:55] And from my understanding, a
little bit of that,
[21:58] Well, the well the wrong path
that he took, was over punish
[22:03] himself. He like he starved
himself, he, he didn't need to
[22:07] drink water, you know, like, one
tiny fingertip touch of water
[22:11] and one grain of rice a day for
like six years. Like I'm really,
[22:14] really proud about this amazing
picture of him looking all
[22:18] emaciated. A sculpture is in the
Lahore Museum, actually from the
[22:22] Gundotra environment, which was
in Afghanistan, in part and part
[22:26] what is now on Pakistan. And
when I met that in 1962, of my
[22:30] first trip to India, and just
floored me, you know, it's like,
[22:35] really like, it's like a
seminary, Christ in seminary,
[22:37] very similar, but you know, six
years long instead of 40 days.
[22:41] And, and then he, in a way that
was part of his trip, in a way,
[22:46] but he also then he, he rejected
it, and in the sense that he
[22:49] said, that didn't necessarily
help. In other words, when he
[22:53] grew up, he was spoiled. He had
a huge harem that his dad
[22:56] procured for him, you know, as
well, before he married him was
[22:59] happily married. And, but you
know, he was a king. So had it
[23:03] still had a harem, and he was,
would have had grown if he'd
[23:05] become king. So he had a big
sent us thing. So then he had a
[23:09] big self torturing thing for
another six years, you know, and
[23:13] then he rejected both of those,
he said, just indulging yourself
[23:17] or torturing yourself. Neither
one is the way the key is to
[23:20] understand yourself. And also,
he didn't teach what people
[23:24] wrongly a lot of them teach
Buddhism as just what you do is
[23:27] you do a meditation where you
shut off your thinking, you're
[23:31] just like, nah. Man, his cry of
triumph was not the, I don't
[23:40] know anything. It was rather
Wow. I know everything. And it's
[23:45] really great. You know, and I
realized, the whole you know, I
[23:49] realized everyone is like me,
I'm like them. And actually,
[23:53] there's a seed of this total
blissful life force in all of
[23:58] them. And I am, it's all it's
all with me, because I know it's
[24:02] there. And they can easily learn
it, especially in humans. And so
[24:05] I'm here with the humans, you
know, I don't really bother I do
[24:08] teach the gods to actually,
there's a lot of different
[24:11] ranges of Gods a Buddhist you
know, like the imagined the
[24:16] Imaginarium. Or some scholars
would say, but actually, the
[24:19] Buddhist cosmos is filled with
angels, deities, also demons,
[24:23] like bad guys, but but the
angels and deities are stronger,
[24:28] or you know, so the thing is
like, it's not like equal. It's
[24:31] not like, the bad guys are just
people who've gone more astray,
[24:35] you could say, but into
megalomania and to self
[24:38] centeredness, because his
insight was that it has to do
[24:42] with exaggerated wiring where
it's all wrapped around
[24:48] yourself, and you would think
you're the greatest and then you
[24:51] keep banging into people who do
not agree. And the universe
[24:55] doesn't agree it comes at you
with sickness and death and pain
[24:59] and and You're trying to
maintain sell on the greatest,
[25:03] and then you can become kind of
a psycho, or you can get angry
[25:07] with it all and think so then
you want to get rid of anybody
[25:11] who doesn't agree with you, and
or you want to dominate them in
[25:15] some way, you know, and get them
out, get them on your side, you
[25:18] know, like this. So, and all of
that is fruitless ultimately,
[25:21] meanwhile, if you really love
all of them, they're
[25:24] automatically on your side, and
they love your back. ventually,
[25:27] you know, so that was the thing.
And then here's the great thing.
[25:31] Then he did. This inside, he
often put in terms of
[25:35] selflessness, he talked about
selflessness. You know,
[25:39] anathema. It's such famous
teaching. So in other words,
[25:42] it's like when you analyze
yourself, you don't find
[25:45] anything inside there, that's an
absolute, what you find is a
[25:49] transparent openness. In other
words, you you become like, Neo
[25:54] in the Matrix, you know, you,
you, you become like Neo, in
[25:57] other words, you are the whole
matrix. So you can you can
[26:00] manipulate things, actually,
like he did remember, those
[26:03] bullets are popped out of his
chest. And then he merged with
[26:06] the bad guy and him laughing.
Because he was he was the code
[26:11] underneath it, as well as
individual cells, you know,
[26:14] which is why I love that movie,
because it kind of illustrates
[26:17] that possibility, which is a
kind of a, it's inexpressible.
[26:21] So it's a contradiction, but
it's embodying a contradiction.
[26:24] So. So whatever you say, someone
could say the opposite. So it's
[26:27] not a dogma. But the point is,
that's what he understood. But
[26:31] but so by him what he meant by
selflessness, he didn't mean
[26:34] that you just don't exist. What
he meant is you have like a
[26:38] soul, which the Buddha is this
esoteric, they call it in the
[26:42] exoteric. They're called mental
continuum comes from the
[26:45] beginning lesson goes into
infinity. And it perpetuity also
[26:50] doesn't leave time. It embraces
all time and all space. And so
[26:55] do you, that's why the book
being a full board is fine, but
[26:58] you don't be enlightened way
short about and still very
[27:01] happy. And that's, that's the
biggest one. And, but there is a
[27:06] personal continuum and all of
that, and that he called the
[27:10] indestructible drop. It's like
a, like a little drop of like a
[27:14] drop bindoon Sounds good,
particularly in Tibetan, which
[27:18] is really cool, particularly
literally tingly. And it's
[27:22] considered when we were alive,
it's sort of tied up in the
[27:25] heart chakra in the center of a
six fold, double triangle, not
[27:29] in the heart chakra. And, and
when we pass away, it leaves the
[27:34] central channel right now opens
and it leaves. But when you're
[27:38] enlightened, it's open. But you
stay with any embodiment you
[27:41] want, you know, type of thing. I
mean, it's, it's preposterous,
[27:45] the sort of super wish
fulfillment that it presents as
[27:50] the goal. It's a materialist, it
seems preposterous totally, you
[27:55] know, it's way beyond woowoo.
It's so cool.
[27:57] So the one thing I love about
what you're saying is because a
[28:04] lot of especially people in the
Christian religions, all all
[28:09] sects of them, believe that they
that the Savior came fully
[28:14] formed, that the Savior were and
then many other religions as
[28:18] well, that the Savior comes
fully formed. And he is here to,
[28:22] to guide us to the light and for
him to be worship, right, from
[28:27] my understanding, and from my
research and in studies. Not one
[28:32] avatar, who has ever stepped
foot on this earth came fully
[28:35] formed. They all became they
were all were born human. And
[28:40] every Yogi had to go through ups
and downs and learn the path for
[28:44] themselves until they get to
this form of enlightenment,
[28:47] which whatever word you want to
use is enlightened, awakening
[28:50] enlightenment, to a point where
you are Neo. I love him. It's
[28:55] one of my favorite movies of all
time as well for that reason,
[28:58] because it's so deep in so many
philosophical ideas are in it,
[29:02] so many truths are in it. And it
opens up so many rabbit holes,
[29:07] no pun intended to go down when
you watch a film like that, but
[29:12] it is Neo is I mean, not only is
he Jesus, but he's also Buddha.
[29:16] He's also Yogananda he is also
Baba Ji he's also all of the all
[29:20] of the avatars that you can
think of wrapped into one but
[29:23] they all finally understood the
truth that they could stay they
[29:28] are the code and if you are the
code, you can manipulate the
[29:32] code and have fun with the code
just as Neo did just as Jesus
[29:36] did when he and Yogi's do when
they are able to do magic, if
[29:40] you will, or yogic powers, all
the all this is all this is part
[29:45] of understanding that you are
the coder you are part of you
[29:49] are God. You are part of God.
[29:52] You're absolutely right. And the
thing is that you know, but in a
[29:58] way you could say on the other
hand, what What actually the
[30:01] result is or the reality of it
is, is beyond our ability to
[30:05] formulate. This is really, in
the sense that we can say, Jesus
[30:11] was fully formed. Or we can say
that the miracle is that is the
[30:14] absolute paradox, that although
he was God, like supposedly
[30:19] omnipotent, or at least
omniscient, yet he made himself
[30:23] on a mission to suffer with us,
and then return on this yet. So
[30:28] he came to be like us to give us
the hope that even those of us
[30:31] like us can be like him. In
other words, that's that's the
[30:35] driving essence of Christianity,
and also Buddhism, in the sense
[30:38] that, but But it's, it's
beginning less. There's no it
[30:43] doesn't come from nothing, any
place. There's no nothing.
[30:46] That's one of my favorite news
flashes is 30 years, I finally
[30:49] discovered that there's no such
thing as nothing. Our mind
[30:57] create something out of a word,
because we want to think that
[30:59] our language is controlling
everything we're giving names to
[31:02] so then we automatically think
we have a word in our string. So
[31:04] there must be a big blank space
someplace that you volunteer
[31:07] that has nothing, well, nothing
means it isn't there. That's the
[31:10] whole point of nothing. So you
can't go there. And that's very
[31:13] important for the materialists
to wake up to that, you know,
[31:17] but my point there is that we
agree and you know, the Dalai
[31:20] Lama. And you're absolutely
right. And the Dalai Lama is
[31:23] really great in terms of
Buddhism historically. And I
[31:28] happen to have been there
luckily, translating for him at
[31:32] Harvard Divinity School, in
their early 70s, or their late
[31:35] 70s. And, and he was making this
big fuss with all the
[31:40] theologians about how he wanted
them to know that he didn't
[31:45] believe in God the way they did.
And I kept Charles whispered to
[31:48] him in Tibet, like your
holiness, don't have to freak
[31:51] them out right away. Come on,
slow it down. No, he says, Then
[31:57] he got belligerent as we do,
because we were a little bit
[31:59] fellow students from the 60s.
I've known him for 60 years, I
[32:03] met him in the wind dragon year,
the last one, which was 60 years
[32:07] ago. 1964. So then he gets
belligerent, and he says in
[32:11] English, or he and he starts in
English, and then he makes me
[32:14] translate. Further, we tell him,
he says, No, I want you all to
[32:17] know, he says that this there is
this difference? He says,
[32:21] because if I didn't tell you
now, then you might be kept to
[32:24] like me, he said, and then was
it like you are never friendly.
[32:29] And then later, you will
discover, oh, he doesn't believe
[32:31] in God. And you might faint.
Right away, or to be forewarned,
[32:38] you know, like, you know, labor
like a laborer on the on the on
[32:42] the pill. But actually, what he
also said, which I love is he
[32:46] said, and we Buddhists have been
arrogant in the past years,
[32:49] because we were only in Buddhist
countries, like we were all
[32:52] Buddhists. And so we thought you
have to be Buddhist to awaken,
[32:55] but from Thomas Merton, and then
he mentioned some Spanish
[32:59] mistakes that he made over the
years, already by the automaton.
[33:02] And he said, I believe that
every spiritual tradition that
[33:06] has lasted on this planet, can
bring you to what we Buddhists
[33:10] think of as enlightenment. So I
just thought that I tolerate the
[33:14] differences that I respected.
Because if you take it to the
[33:17] max, what Jesus taught what
Muhammad taught, he didn't
[33:21] mention that Muhammad, but later
he did. What they all taught
[33:25] that Lao Tzu torture on China,
that will get you to the same
[33:29] place. And this is really
critical, because we have to
[33:32] stop converting each other. I
don't want to convert anybody. I
[33:36] want everybody to stay with
grandma's religion. So grandma
[33:40] will be happy as I was, you
said, I never want anybody who
[33:44] is born Buddhists to be
Buddhists. But I want us to
[33:47] learn from each other. On the
other hand, how to how to use
[33:50] the mind, psychology, science,
you know, and he's he even
[33:54] materialist, he thinks that's a
world that's like a world
[33:57] spirituality is secular
humanism. We don't react to it
[34:01] as the domineering aspect of
religious institutions, and
[34:05] having a spirituality that take
because they didn't want to go
[34:07] to hell, they know they did. So
they say, yeah, there was no
[34:09] mark, but they exaggerated they
become too dogmatic about care,
[34:13] materialism, but she doesn't say
to them, because he wants to be
[34:16] nice with him, he leaves me to
be the bad guy. Get over the
[34:23] dogma of this old matter, you
know, because they're in the
[34:28] group that says it's all mine.
But that's not the main group,
[34:31] the main group says, matter and
mind are a binary pair, you
[34:36] know, and they are the opposite
of each other. And each one only
[34:39] has meaning because it's the
opposite of the other one. And
[34:42] it isn't an absolute meaning out
of some reference to what I'm
[34:45] saying. It's very sophisticated
with language, in other words,
[34:48] in the in the high Indian for
Indian and Tibetan philosophy.
[34:52] So anyway, so the thing about
Tibetan Buddhism is, it's not
[34:56] that scary and what it is is, it
was nearest to India. And when
[35:01] Buddhists got persecuted in
India, or in the 10th 11th 12th
[35:04] century, by outsiders coming in
with other religions, then then
[35:10] used to go over the past, you
know, some of the weekend, some
[35:13] of the cities as they call them,
they adapt, you know, the
[35:15] mistakes that the yogi's, and
they just went over the past,
[35:18] and then they're up there and
will take us to the, they get,
[35:21] you get a little stone with only
47% Oxygen, if you don't get
[35:25] acute mountain disease, you will
get a little salt. And so they,
[35:29] they, they and they felt so much
that India had been the holy
[35:33] land that they preserved the
Indian stuff really well. And
[35:37] ironically, because of the
Chinese invasion of Tibet, they
[35:40] have brought it back to India,
not to convert the Indians to
[35:43] Buddhism. He's against that he
but to help simulate the Indian
[35:48] psychology and spiritual
science, which he thinks is the
[35:51] most important thing for the
planet. And so he's, it's a
[35:55] wonderful thing he is making as
his legacy. Now at 90. He's
[35:59] building a big university, in
the equivalent of Netcom. For
[36:03] Buddhists, which is a place
called Bodhgaya, where the tree
[36:05] is, you know, where the Buddha
said, that's like their holy
[36:08] place, the holiest place, there
are other ones. But that's
[36:11] always fun. But instead of
building a big temple on the
[36:14] Temple, he's building a
university, you know, for
[36:17] learning that because he thinks
that's what humans have to do
[36:20] now, which I think is kind of
cool. Roddenberry? I love the
[36:23] guy. I do. Although we argue we,
we do.
[36:31] Well, let me ask you this
question. And this is a question
[36:33] that I'd love to hear your point
of view on. There is, I always
[36:38] one of my favorite topics to
talk about is the time when we
[36:42] leave Jesus in the Bible, and
where we pick him up. And
[36:46] there's a from Third Age 12 or
13. And he shows up at 30. And
[36:49] apparently, he they never,
that's one biggest problem I had
[36:54] with the Catholic Church. I
always used to even as a kid,
[36:56] what happened? What was teenage
Jesus? Like, you know, was he
[37:00] drinking? Was he going out? Did
he cause trouble? Was he? What
[37:04] was he doing? And they never let
go? Don't ask these kind of
[37:06] questions. From my studies, I've
discovered that Jesus did leave
[37:11] and went to India went to Egypt.
And then also, and they also say
[37:16] he went to Tibet, I'd love to
hear your point of view of what
[37:19] historical as an academic did,
is there anything that you come
[37:23] across in regards to that?
[37:24] Oh, yeah. Well, you know, in a
way I don't, to me, it's not
[37:28] that important, because I think
of Jesus as human and divine. He
[37:34] is like that. And so, you know,
if I don't want it sort of, like
[37:39] we were trying to reduce, reduce
Jesus's great achievement and
[37:43] awesome teaching, to something
he learned from Buddhists,
[37:46] because I mean, I think that
that's but but on the other
[37:49] hand, I think put it this way,
the richest place in Jesus's
[37:54] time. And in Buddha's time in
Eurasia, is India, always, you
[37:59] know, we always think India is a
poor country, but reason is poor
[38:02] is the bridge to extracted
wealth for 300 years. So they
[38:05] built a railways to take it out
of there. They, to them, it was
[38:09] a jewel in the crown of the
British Empire, because it's the
[38:12] richest part of Eurasia, the
river valleys coming out of the
[38:14] Himalayas are the most fertile,
fantastic day. And so it always
[38:18] had a huge population, many
cities, city states, you know,
[38:22] it's 35 times larger than the
Nile floodplain, the different
[38:27] floodplains in India, so it's
supporting so many more people.
[38:31] So also the Kings, therefore,
were less oppressive of dropout,
[38:38] you know, yogi's wanting to just
really find out what it's all
[38:40] about not wanting to serve in
the military, or even raise a
[38:44] family or whatever. So they were
just more people doing that. So
[38:49] in the Persian empires were
always made traveled through the
[38:53] Middle East, very possible from
India to the Mediterranean, and
[38:57] that Jesus would go and would
encounter some kind of spiritual
[39:00] science, I think is very doable.
And there is a tradition that he
[39:04] went to Ladakh, that western
part of Tibet, which is now
[39:08] politically, India, but we're
part of it has been grabbed by
[39:11] China and Pakistan, but it's
politically in the app
[39:13] traditionally. And there's a
tomb of Isa there and so on. And
[39:18] actually, I have a funny story,
right enjoy of a friend of mine
[39:21] who's like a fashion
photographer. Very worldly.
[39:25] Personally, he's spiritual, but
you know, it's a worldly
[39:27] together person. And his he and
his wife told me the story,
[39:31] which I was so amazed because
he's not like, what you think of
[39:34] as a yogi. And when he was they
were on a honeymoon in Kashmir,
[39:40] but it was peaceful there. He
was fishing with I don't know
[39:45] why he would do that on the
moon, but he was from a big
[39:47] boulder and a stream there. And
then he fell off and smashed his
[39:52] knee really badly landed on his
kneecap or something. I mean, it
[39:56] was really bad. It was in total
agony and it's all up like like
[40:00] or watermelon, and they had to
cut his jeans and everything and
[40:03] then they and then the tour guys
said all sub we have someone who
[40:11] we can heal you has the hands of
Krishna, you know, he'll heal
[40:15] you right away, don't bother
with hospital do all that but he
[40:18] says no thanks Take me to
hospital, the trainer garden. So
[40:21] I went to the hospital and there
was an Indian doctor there. And
[40:24] she's a lady. And she's she
looked at it. And then she came
[40:27] out with a giant syringe. She
said, Okay, I will insert this
[40:31] in the knee and pull out all the
fluid, that I'll put it in a
[40:34] cast. And then you will be that
calves for three months. And
[40:38] then after you take the cast
off, you probably have to have a
[40:40] knee replacement. And it's a
real, it's really a mess. You
[40:43] know, there's nothing we can do
about it. So I think you should
[40:46] go with the porters and go to
the guy with the hands of Chris
[40:50] Nice. Well, he and his wife
decided, well, however, both the
[40:55] doctor and the board's attorney,
so he went, and he came to this
[40:59] village and then they said to
him, first they didn't want to
[41:03] talk to him because it was a
Westerner and then they let him
[41:06] in. And then they said, Well, we
can do something but you know,
[41:09] it's really going to hurt and
you're going to freak out and
[41:12] the wife has to leave the
village. She has to go with a
[41:14] border somewhere where she won't
hear screaming and whatever you
[41:17] don't mean, but we'll do it but
when you No, no, no. She said
[41:21] I'm staying he said I'm staying
home I can take so then then
[41:26] they they however said about
themselves. They had the hands
[41:28] of Allah. They didn't say
Krishna they said our it's so
[41:32] good to know the Hindu Muslims
are getting along at that time.
[41:34] Sorry, it was peaceful. And so
then they choose their chick
[41:39] Taylor, I'm the witness of this.
Poor strong guys kicking talk to
[41:43] hold his four limbs. They are
Muslim, but they had alcohol.
[41:47] They had them drink a bunch of
whiskey first vocal was. So he
[41:51] was quite liberated, but still
in agony. And then it was so he
[41:56] passed out and and listened
down. They manipulate his leg
[41:59] and they did all this and
whatever. The next morning, he
[42:04] wakes up, his leg looks normal.
He gets up, he walks out my leg.
[42:12] He has a cane, but it is look
ginger, but it's like a miracle
[42:17] actually, of course. So then
they they asked him what what is
[42:22] this Pat hands of Allah hands or
Krishna? Like what is this? And
[42:26] they said, Oh, we are we are
from the family of Isa. And he
[42:30] came with Mary and this and
that. And they told us a story.
[42:34] You know, like the apocryphal
gospel type story, Mary
[42:38] Magdalene sort of tradition. And
we inherited this. And we've had
[42:42] healers in this village unbroken
since he saw and he was there
[42:45] with his family. But he went
back to the west before he
[42:48] passed away, didn't pass away
here. They rejected the place.
[42:52] Supposedly this tool is there.
And they said, Well, we're not
[42:55] really into that. He was here
for a long period of time. But
[42:58] we're only after 100 110 years.
He did go back to the west. They
[43:02] say he they so they told him the
whole story in other words that
[43:05] people some people know and he
told me this story that this
[43:09] happened and he told them they
did a miracle honestly, total
[43:12] miracle. So that's you know,
raising the dead fixing the leg.
[43:16] You know if that's the case, you
know, I mean, I don't know but I
[43:19] love this story. I really do.
[43:21] If you're enjoying this
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[43:50] today. I'll see you on the
inside.
[43:57] But let me ask you from your
point of view, because again,
[44:00] I'm this is one of my favorite
topics to talk about is you
[44:03] know, it's the filmmaker in me.
This is a very fantastic store.
[44:07] It's the filmmaker. What do you
think is happening when these
[44:12] miracles are occurring? Because
it sounds again, like a yogic or
[44:17] a or a Yeshua thing, where is it
that the practitioners have been
[44:22] taught the code and they're able
to tap into that to create these
[44:27] kinds of miracles?
[44:28] Yes, yes. Well, here's the
thing, like there's a sutra and
[44:31] exoteric sutra that is a term
called the flower ornament sutra
[44:35] in translation from via Chinese
into English from Sanskrit by my
[44:40] friend Thomas Cleary. And I have
a part 137 recording something I
[44:46] read the whole thing when he
passed away like two years ago,
[44:48] because I admire it so much. But
Lynette suture, they have a
[44:52] bodhisattva who's like an angel
or like a savior figure called
[44:57] Samantabhadra, which means
Minister goody, goody, totally
[45:00] Oh, All around goody goody. And
he has a special meditation that
[45:05] whenever he's doing anything, he
visualizes where he can see that
[45:11] every atom likes to say he's
praying like this. And every
[45:15] atom on his fingertip and his
hands and his whole body, and
[45:18] the chair is sitting in the
room, he's in the building and
[45:20] the planet. And every atom,
there's another identical
[45:24] universe, like multiple
multiverse, you know. And in
[45:27] that universe, he's also they're
doing the same thing. And in
[45:31] that universe, which is in every
atom here, in every atom of that
[45:36] Micro Universe, there's another
universe, micro micro universe,
[45:40] and then in every atom of that
micro Micro Universe is another
[45:43] one. And we're everywhere in
that. So it's like, I call it
[45:46] the micro in infinite. So in
other words, you your mind
[45:50] becomes your imagination becomes
like a super electron
[45:53] microscope, and you go down
through your imagination, if you
[45:56] have meditative one point and
toys, and you'll go down where
[46:00] you never got to nothing,
because there's no such thing
[46:04] ever get there. And it's just
filled with positive energy,
[46:09] because you're doing the same
good thing that you're doing.
[46:11] It's resonating like that. So
that relates to the Book of the
[46:16] Dead stuff, which is the wrong
title, but it's called Book of
[46:18] natural liberation by being in
the between. and, and in that
[46:24] when we pass away, and when we
get to that indestructible drop
[46:27] in the soul, which is the soul,
what we do is our mind, this
[46:31] identifies from the course body,
where we're proceeding with the
[46:35] five senses. And it starts to
get into we become our own inner
[46:40] neuroscientific probe in our own
central nervous system, which is
[46:45] brain and the whole body. And we
have these different chakras,
[46:48] you know, they put wheels on
flowers and different nexuses,
[46:52] from the general clerk to the,
to the crown of the brain, you
[46:55] know, and you get where you can
maneuver in there, and then it
[46:59] opens up. And then you have this
super micro awareness like just
[47:04] like the matrix, right, Neil,
sort of would see those little
[47:08] green things going down just
code and the code, right. And so
[47:14] you go down to the sub sub
subatomic, you get to the Higgs
[47:18] boson field, which by the way,
is not a little particle, they
[47:22] pretend it's a particle just to
get more grants to smash more
[47:25] atoms. But it's actually a feat,
because they never took a hold
[47:29] of a particle, they just, they
study an explosion and make an
[47:32] inference, but actually never
grabbed it, it gets the Higgs
[47:34] boson field. And so we want to
get down to where your awareness
[47:39] is simultaneously like it's in a
course body. But it's also at
[47:44] the micro level where every atom
in you is aware. So the atom
[47:49] because it feels great, and it
loves the atom next to it wants
[47:53] to like, connect to it, and
merge with it. And they all want
[47:56] to merge with each other. And
so, because of that, a being who
[48:00] has that openness, can get to
their micro awareness. And then
[48:07] they can go into the atoms of
the guy's knee, and the cells
[48:11] and build up in the molecules
and cells, and they can do stem
[48:14] cell with their own
consciousness. And they can
[48:18] reform that, that knee and the
cartilage and that button and
[48:22] get the bone and etc. Although,
you know, they'll be tenuous at
[48:26] first dollar 10. And the person
has to take it easy. And, and
[48:30] that's it. That's the root of
the miracle. In other words, so
[48:33] people wrongly think, you know,
like when people get stoned
[48:35] psychedelics introduces people
to an awareness where they feel
[48:39] they are a field, kind of, you
know, and they look at a flower
[48:43] and they go berserk, and they
see the whole universe and the
[48:45] flower, you know, like, William
Blake University of grain of
[48:48] sand, rotating, you know, they,
they can get there. So then they
[48:51] kind of tend stupidly to think,
or not stupidly, but just
[48:53] naturally, because it's using,
they think the main thing is to
[48:58] stay stoned. But that is not the
thing. The thing is, that's,
[49:01] that's the far range of what our
sensitivity is capable out,
[49:05] where we can make be in love
from the fingertips, you know,
[49:10] but on the other hand, the goal
is to cover the whole range
[49:14] simultaneously. That's what
that's what really awakening is.
[49:18] And so that's why it's such
people can be amazing healers,
[49:21] you know, and for example,
normal person who develops their
[49:25] own spiritual capabilities. They
have natural clairvoyance or
[49:30] they call divine higher divine
here, they know what someone's
[49:32] saying, 100,000 miles away,
they, they can see what's
[49:36] happening in San Francisco,
Texas, whatever. They can read
[49:40] everybody's mind they can do
telekinesis, normally, and in
[49:44] fact, it's a warning for people
on the spiritual path, that when
[49:47] these things start happening,
and you'll become totally
[49:49] empathetic and feel what someone
else is thinking completely or
[49:53] like in their body, almost you
feel. You don't get distracted
[49:56] by that. And so just playing
without writing first, you want
[49:59] to get to where you really Be
open to the whole matrix before
[50:03] you foster that. But then once
you do, if you're going to be a
[50:06] spiritual guru, you have to be
aware of what people really
[50:09] need. You have to be fully
empathetic. And that's because
[50:13] you feel the resonance. You're
like a living CAT scan. And then
[50:17] of course, it's preposterous,
when a fully awakened person,
[50:20] but what they call a Samyak,
some Buddha, a totally, you
[50:25] know, integrated Buddha is, is
you are empathetic with every
[50:30] every living thing you know, you
are the one with the lifeforce,
[50:33] they call it the clear light of
the void, or kind of infinite
[50:37] goodness power. It's like, I
like to say, you know, they've
[50:40] discovered no dark matter and
dark energy field might be a
[50:45] thing to Lincoln, because, of
course, they want to capture the
[50:47] dark now that Arthur Bowers,
meanwhile, it's dark as they can
[50:52] see it. And they're telling us
they're about to control all of
[50:56] reality with their mathematics
and their magic, what nonsense,
[50:59] just because they can make a
bomb. That's it, that has
[51:02] nothing compared to the power of
the universe. So, but what I'm
[51:05] saying is, what it actually is,
is clear matter and clear
[51:10] energy. And that's all of it.
And that's all of us. It's like
[51:14] instead of a nothingness feel
materialistic they're living in.
[51:18] That's why they have no future
lives, you know? No. So instead
[51:23] of a nothingness, it's a field
of infinite energy that we can
[51:27] tap in infinitely if we know
about it, but then itself
[51:31] doesn't do anything because he
is from this perspective, it's
[51:34] all already done. And in a way
that the mistake in the theistic
[51:39] religion, I think that's the
Dalai Lama, he had that insight.
[51:42] I'm only lately could have more
getting into it. And I still
[51:45] probably still I don't really
get it, but I can talk myself
[51:48] into a little bit temporarily
trying to explain something
[51:51] which is inexplicable. And I
think why he said, you can get
[51:56] fully enlightened the way
Buddhists would define it
[52:00] through Christ, or through
Muhammad or through Lautrec.
[52:05] Whatever it is, if you go all
the way with it, you encounter
[52:09] this infinite energy. And then
infinite means it's like Meister
[52:13] Eckhart. He said, the heart of
God is a desert. It's not a
[52:16] person with a beard who speaks
Hebrew or Arabic, or Latin or
[52:21] Greek or something. It's, it's
a, it's a vast openness, its
[52:25] vastness. It's like, you just
melt into it, you never get to
[52:28] see it in a way. I like to say,
enlightenment awakening, the
[52:33] full one is the ultimate
anticlimax. Because you realize,
[52:38] we've all been there forever,
always, without ever leaving.
[52:44] Play we play with, with not
being with being like our
[52:48] separate itself, connecting
everyone else through love. And
[52:53] because that's nice, because we
don't want to win because we see
[52:56] it, Buddha would be breaking his
vow as a bodhisattva to save
[53:00] everybody, save your vowel,
which is what Jesus had. I'm
[53:05] gonna save all beings by giving
myself like this. It's why
[53:08] Maharajji you know, Romdas's
guru. It's why he used to weep
[53:12] when he would mention Jesus,
although he's a Hindu, you know,
[53:14] how am I but he was to cry to do
all these huge guys, all these
[53:18] Hindus. Or is it assembly? He
would read Proverbs Rabbi Jesus,
[53:24] you know, so So that's the
bodhisattva vow. So he would
[53:28] abandon that, if he just went to
sort of Paradise and the matrix
[53:32] himself, rather than seeing that
actually, they're all already
[53:36] there, too. And they just
confused about so they're,
[53:39] they're, they're stressing
themselves out. So I will stay
[53:43] with them. I'll be back. You
know, Jesus, as Jesus said, It
[53:47] was an Arnold who said, I'll be
back. He's it said, I'll be
[53:52] back. You know, and you but he
said, I'll be back in your
[53:55] generation. He said he didn't
say he'll be back in 20th
[53:59] century Texas. Baptists.
[54:05] He didn't say that. And he's
been with people all the time.
[54:08] But Buddhists would say Jesus,
that's totally present still for
[54:11] those who believe in Him. And I
think it's great that they do
[54:15] it, Zola's size really does. And
I finally when I finally
[54:18] appreciate it, as long as I was
a little because you know, I was
[54:22] a child. I was I never quite
believed it. So I don't consider
[54:26] that I left Christianity I
considered I was gonna be a
[54:29] secular humanist if anything,
although I was taken to church
[54:32] here. They're not my parents are
not super religious, parents
[54:35] materials, you know, the
Protestants are
[54:39] Just enough, just enough to get
that into heaven. Just enough.
[54:44] Make a claim on Jesus when they
die, you know. And meanwhile,
[54:49] what Jesus wants everybody to
try to be like Jesus, and be
[54:53] nice towards me. He was trying
to be nice to everybody raised
[54:56] Him from the dead. He healed
them. He was friendly to them
[55:00] and He wants to show that the
Romans, that they couldn't kill
[55:03] him. So they shouldn't be afraid
of the Romans exactly what he
[55:07] really showed, because they
weren't unable to kill him.
[55:10] That's it and love is more
powerful. In other words, then,
[55:13] then then then murder, you know?
[55:15] No, absolutely not. I wanted to
ask you, I wanted to ask you
[55:20] because you obviously know His
Holiness and the concept of the
[55:25] Dalai Lama, because there's been
many Dalai Lama's over, over the
[55:29] centuries. Can you explain to
people how a Dalai Lama is
[55:33] chosen? And when they're chosen?
I know they're chosen as
[55:37] children? What kind of training?
Does that child get to become
[55:43] the leader of you know, of a
religion or a philosophy around
[55:48] the world? Right?
[55:49] Well, he's supposed to be the
incarnation of Avalokitesvara.
[55:53] But the process is, which makes
it a little hard to explain, to
[55:57] make it easy to explain so in a
way, but you can say, he's the
[56:01] real he's the he's, he's the
Jimmy's, the Buddha's Jesus, you
[56:05] know, corny, Chinese, or
Avalokitesvara. And Sanskrit,
[56:08] Chandra is second Tibetan. So
here's the idea that Buddha
[56:12] loves everybody, and always says
for them. But the bodies had
[56:17] this idea. They call it near
Mauna Kea, the body of
[56:21] emanation. And so the idea is,
it's not just healing and being
[56:25] enclosed in one course of body
one ordinary body with five
[56:29] senses, like a humanoid body.
It's you apparently, if you
[56:33] become a Buddha, you can have
infinite number of bodies. So
[56:37] you can manifest as many bodies
as beings need on every planet.
[56:40] Also, Buddhists are totally
Mahayana, Buddhists are totally
[56:44] noticing there are beings coming
from other planets. And they
[56:47] didn't have ships, they didn't
need ships, they came with mine
[56:50] travel, just like Neil could do,
you know, like, knowing the
[56:53] code, which the code is, and
there are countless humanoid
[56:57] planets, countless divine
heavens, countless angelic
[57:00] places. They're also
unfortunately held here and
[57:03] there, but temporary, and
they're pretty much self
[57:07] inflicted by people who get
really nasty, and they become
[57:11] dictators or something and start
killing people badly, you know,
[57:14] and they really get really
frightened of everybody, because
[57:16] they were killing everybody. So
they become really closed up,
[57:19] you know, and then they torture
them. But but but they're not.
[57:23] Nobody puts anybody there and
nobody stays there forever.
[57:26] That's what but yeah, they do
have an idea of can be very,
[57:29] very negative state of being you
can make for yourself by being
[57:33] happy. But anyway, so that's
what yours is. But on the other
[57:36] hand, there are other ones too,
there are other Lamas who are
[57:39] supposed to also emanation of
Avalokiteshvara. And then
[57:42] there's these female Jesus's
called Tara's, Tara means Savior
[57:47] s female one, the Ta Ta ra. And
there's many of them. And so
[57:53] it's like, it's in one way, it's
not so special. But in one way,
[57:57] in the Tibetan culture in
particular, they got really
[58:00] special about it, because it
seemed like he just kept coming,
[58:04] and they kept inviting as the
culture. And then they saw their
[58:08] past emperors who did the top
down importation of Buddhism,
[58:12] first phase that they saw them
as emanations of Avalokitesvara.
[58:16] And they, and so they saw
themselves being kind of saved
[58:19] by Jesus. But then of course,
there Jesus tells them just like
[58:22] our Jesus does to, you know, the
Western world, is that if you're
[58:26] really nasty, I can't help you.
You know, Jesus said, Get the
[58:30] only evil do or if you come to
me and say you did great deeds
[58:33] of power in my in your name, oh,
Lord. He says that right after
[58:38] the immaculate right after the
Beatitudes, he says, I'm not
[58:41] gonna you know, I know you're
not, you know, you didn't do
[58:43] what I told you didn't follow my
beatitudes and give them your
[58:46] shirt, you know, you even try to
take away their social security.
[58:53] So, so Jesus, the good, God
always tells people, God helps
[58:59] those who help themselves or
her. And Jesus says, God, I
[59:02] helped her to help others. And
that's, that's the same as that.
[59:06] So. So that's what a Dalai Lama
is. And he but he's not the only
[59:11] one. There's some other ones.
But he sort of becomes the main
[59:14] one within the Tibetan culture,
because it's kind of the
[59:19] ratification that there Jesus
keeps coming and keep staying
[59:23] with them. It's sort of and then
the culture became, like, where
[59:27] everybody a lot of these
reincarnations were happening.
[59:31] And it got to be in socially
where you couldn't run for
[59:34] sheriff unless you prove you're
already been doing good for
[59:37] people for five lifetimes. And
the way it was, the way you were
[59:41] recognized was, there would be
signs at the time of your birth
[59:44] like extraordinary portents,
sort of type of thing. omens.
[59:48] And then and your parents would
often have dreams and amazing
[59:51] things, but sometimes spring
would spout whipped cream or
[59:54] something, you know, stuff like
that. And then and then you
[59:58] would have a real bright thing
about you right away, and you'd
[1:00:02] be a little like Mozart or
something like a kind of bit of
[1:00:04] a prodigy, but and then they
will come at some point. And
[1:00:07] they would give you a bunch of
tests like where you'd have your
[1:00:10] hairbrush. They come to me show
you a hairbrush. And then
[1:00:13] there'd be five other better
nicer hairdressers, and you're
[1:00:15] all right. And hairbrush, you'd
have to pick the one that you
[1:00:18] used to use, you know, or some
ritual symbol, you know, the
[1:00:22] bell, the bell that used to have
and then some much more
[1:00:25] beautiful golden one, and then
they've been and then you had to
[1:00:28] pick the right button. So they
would do tests like that. And
[1:00:30] they would go to psychics, you
know, and then they had
[1:00:32] articles. And then they had a
special article lake where you
[1:00:36] would go and you would see
something in the light, like the
[1:00:38] house of the person where they
were born or some dryer, or they
[1:00:42] some day it would speak to, I
mean, a lot, it seems. So then
[1:00:46] you would cross reference all of
that, you know, so in other
[1:00:49] words, it's like if in our
culture, right, in our culture,
[1:00:52] we have the materialists, we're
like, they're gonna figure it
[1:00:55] all out with their microscopes
and telescopes or the whole
[1:00:57] thing. And, and where they've
come is where 98% of the
[1:01:01] universe or 95%, they haven't
seen it yet. They're just
[1:01:06] getting started over here.
Anyway, and then the other side,
[1:01:12] the psychic, so that's all we
don't believe all that. And
[1:01:15] that's ridiculous. I know that
culture, they have all of that,
[1:01:17] you know, they very hardcore
rigorous reasoning and
[1:01:22] investigation of the mind and so
forth, without needing machines
[1:01:26] much. And then they do have
prayer machines, and then they
[1:01:29] have complete psychic and they
have article possession.
[1:01:34] So, yeah, so what so then in
Buddhism, there is they believe
[1:01:40] in psychic mediums, and they
believe so they believe in
[1:01:44] psychic mediums, Oracle's
channelers, those kinds of
[1:01:47] things are, see that's fast. And
I didn't know that I had no idea
[1:01:51] that, in fact, that's heresy.
That's heresy for
[1:01:53] My wife is a big fan of yours. I
also like it, but I don't have
[1:01:56] time to watch. And she's a huge
fan. And she was like, oh, Pa, I
[1:02:00] mean, not to call me Barbara
Tenzin or whatever you do. I'm
[1:02:05] really glad and Alex, I don't
see you. I don't know. Alex like
[1:02:09] psychics and channelers. And,
you know, I don't know. And I'm
[1:02:13] telling her. Listen, I have had
visions I've channeled, you
[1:02:16] know, Dalai Lama tried to
recruit me as his local ones.
[1:02:20] But he was teasing me, you know,
because I got out of it. He
[1:02:23] actually was grabbed me by the
shoulders. But I was complaining
[1:02:25] why he wasn't replacing in our
particular article that I used
[1:02:28] to know who passed away. And it
was a gap of a few years before
[1:02:32] the new one came up with a state
article. And that's such a
[1:02:35] foreign institution today.
Imagine the chaplain of the
[1:02:39] house of Congress, if that was a
possession medium, I think would
[1:02:45] be medium for spirit of Crazy
Horse or something. And he would
[1:02:50] have when they will convene the
house of State of the Union sort
[1:02:55] of thing, both houses, he would
stock up and down the aisles
[1:02:59] with a bow and arrow, but Simba
he wouldn't shoot anybody but he
[1:03:03] would finger anybody betraying
the Constitution, you know, the
[1:03:08] medium, you know, like an angel.
Even the deity that he's
[1:03:12] channeling, they have this
context that that's called PR,
[1:03:17] but that data is too powerful.
No human can channel him. So do
[1:03:20] you channel his minister at
Angel, who's calling towards
[1:03:25] your dark den. And then he goes,
a little guy, you know, little
[1:03:29] slight guy, not you know, pencil
neck type a little guy move monk
[1:03:32] who does prayers, he puts on an
80 pound helmet, and all this
[1:03:36] stuff and washes his head around
like this, when he's possessed.
[1:03:40] There's face balls, as it turns
like this, he spits out you
[1:03:43] throw things and he's given me a
lot of spit, you know. And so I
[1:03:48] like to go to go I'm a tease me
and I've had a few visions like
[1:03:52] that. So I felt I was capable. I
like be really great to bring up
[1:03:58] to so I am told some Buddhists,
the Dalai Lama agrees with me
[1:04:01] that we can use the word soul.
In Buddhism, there's no soul,
[1:04:05] it's not a dogma, it just means
that your soul is also alive
[1:04:09] thing. And it's super several.
And it's like a micro micro you.
[1:04:15] It doesn't necessarily have your
limbs and things like that. And
[1:04:18] it can move into all kinds of
different environments. And but
[1:04:22] you have a continuum like that.
And so it's changing the world
[1:04:25] when he said, there's no self he
meant that you're not a rigidly
[1:04:29] fixed, absolute barcode that is
somehow involved in relations
[1:04:34] but you're not a relative during
the actual fix thing, you know,
[1:04:38] that frozen thing, that that's
what, that's what the notes, no
[1:04:42] self, no. So even no nose, no
ear, no, I know when they are
[1:04:46] negating things. The Buddha is
going to negating to liberate us
[1:04:50] from our language habit of
seeking. If we have a word, it's
[1:04:54] got to be something and that
fits exactly on the thing and
[1:04:57] the word comes from the thing
which is what makes the modern
[1:04:59] people I think that nothing is
something where they place
[1:05:03] they're gonna go and have longer
anesthetized sleep, which is BS,
[1:05:08] they're going to be alive the
minute they die. In fact, we'll
[1:05:12] have, you know, there'll be
like, like, like near where he
[1:05:17] could have many parties and even
the bad guy had many products,
[1:05:20] remember?
[1:05:20] Yeah, of course, he can multiply
himself a mil a billion times.
[1:05:23] So it's essentially he was
trying to take over the world by
[1:05:26] exactly. Cloning himself to
infinity. Exactly was to fight
[1:05:31] that.
[1:05:34] What I love about our chose
case, and Citrix is that
[1:05:38] remember, he finally he gave
that punch to Neil. And then all
[1:05:42] of the Neil duplicates became
him. And he was like, the
[1:05:48] Cheshire Cat outsold me. And
then suddenly, they all changed
[1:05:51] into Neil, and then he changed
into Neil.
[1:05:54] Yeah, exactly. No, it's. So
[1:05:57] That's more powerful than the
bad. And that's what we need in
[1:06:02] our culture. You know, it's not
the Catholics, but it's the
[1:06:05] Romans. You know, it's
convincing you with all of us,
[1:06:10] that the bad guy, that mean
emperor, the dictator is more
[1:06:18] powerful than poor. It's a
subliminal message. Of course,
[1:06:23] we say, oh, yeah, God is
greater. But we were fear our
[1:06:27] fear is and then they even
become scared of God. If we
[1:06:30] don't say the right mantra. Some
plays forever. I mean, come on.
[1:06:36] I mean, when I read the Old
Testament, I'm like, wow, this
[1:06:38] guy is really insecure. He's
angry. He's insecure, he's an
[1:06:42] egomaniac you must bow to me and
like, this doesn't seem like the
[1:06:47] God I want to follow. It didn't
make any sense. Bob, let me ask
[1:06:51] you this.
[1:06:52] I believe I got to like Yahweh.
I might just just just to tease
[1:06:56] his holiness. I want to convert
maybe to Judaism I really like
[1:07:01] it. I think I by God should ever
call a Christian should realize
[1:07:05] give God at least a little
credit for being smart. If he
[1:07:09] wanted him to be so anti
semitic. Why would he put his
[1:07:13] only son to be too much
[1:07:15] Well, there's that. People
forget that people forget that
[1:07:20] he was a Jew. But they always
did.
[1:07:23] Because what's Constantine tear
dad. He wants to scapegoat the
[1:07:27] Jews instead of hangers ability
for Pilate being for the Roman
[1:07:31] working. It's like, oh, you
know, Constantine and Mel Gibson
[1:07:37] want to blame that, rather than
taking responsibility for wrong.
[1:07:42] Now, let me ask you this,
because this is a concept that
[1:07:45] I've come across by interviewing
and having conversations with
[1:07:49] hundreds of a lot of near death
experiencers, psychics, mediums,
[1:07:55] channels, this concept, and even
spiritual gurus, yogi's I've
[1:07:58] spoken to all go through this
concept that I'm about to tell
[1:08:02] you, and I'd love to hear your
thought about it from a Tibetan
[1:08:05] Buddhist point of view. There
are no past lives, there are no
[1:08:09] future lives, all lives are
happening at the same time. And
[1:08:13] all lives ripple towards if you
do something to this one, it
[1:08:16] ripples, quote, unquote, forward
quote, unquote, back. And it's
[1:08:20] there's like a, an oversoul, if
you will, which is the main
[1:08:24] soul, and he just little drops,
every lifetime is a little drop.
[1:08:28] And we're experienced them all
at the same time. And I was
[1:08:30] explained this by a channel,
which I thought was amazing
[1:08:33] conversation. I go, Well, that's
hard for my car, my little head
[1:08:35] to my little, the hardware we
have is very limited our brain
[1:08:39] to to grasp these concepts. But
I said that he said to me, Well,
[1:08:43] imagine you're watching the show
on television, you're watching
[1:08:46] friends. Okay, you're watching
Friends. While you're watching
[1:08:50] that episode of Friends, there's
1000 other shows playing at the
[1:08:53] exact same time as you're
watching your episode of
[1:08:57] Friends. So it doesn't negate
the other shows that they do
[1:09:01] exists. You're just not privy to
them at this moment, because
[1:09:05] you've chosen to focus on this
show at the time. So I'd love to
[1:09:09] hear your thoughts on this idea.
[1:09:10] I think that's a beautiful
thing. And actually what you're
[1:09:14] expressing is the Buddha
perspective, is the enlightened
[1:09:18] one of the names of Buddha as
three had been Yeah. Which means
[1:09:23] who knows the three times past
present future, which means
[1:09:28] that, that when you become a
Buddha, you are everywhere in
[1:09:32] your past, and you're everywhere
in your own and everyone else's
[1:09:36] future actually limitlessly
knowledge not just even on this
[1:09:40] planet. And this is taught in
sort of exoteric Buddhism. I
[1:09:46] mean, the name is known that the
Buddha knows everything in past
[1:09:49] present future. But in the story
of the Buddha, you know, even
[1:09:52] the most simple grade school
level sorry, no, like child
[1:09:56] children's version is when
guests before Buddha changed
[1:10:00] perfect nirvana or sort of
simultaneous or perfect Nirvana,
[1:10:03] he remembers infinite past lives
of himself. So in other words,
[1:10:07] he realizes he was every kind of
being imaginable already
[1:10:12] infinite that time, because
beginning less, you know, you
[1:10:15] can say, and then he sees
everybody else also was, but
[1:10:18] they don't know it. And he
didn't know it. And then he sees
[1:10:21] that he was in every conceivable
relationship with everybody in
[1:10:24] the past, both good and bad, but
then why not worry about the bad
[1:10:28] one, so and then he sees all the
different future possibilities
[1:10:31] of everybody. So then he sticks
with them to help them get to
[1:10:35] where they also know that. So
that's the same thing. But in a
[1:10:38] way, what you could say is, that
is exactly what you said. And
[1:10:42] that's a broad perspective. But
the way you reach that
[1:10:45] perspective, from his point of
view, is to analytic
[1:10:50] investigation, like a scientist,
but combined with a meditative
[1:10:54] focus. So you can really drill
through everything and drill
[1:10:59] down like Bill Gates says, you
know, and what happens is,
[1:11:03] whereas the present, for
example, obviously, there is no
[1:11:07] present, because the duration of
the exact present cannot be,
[1:11:12] everything is just a little past
a little future. It's like the
[1:11:15] idea of a line geometrically. If
you draw a line, it's a narrow
[1:11:19] triangle, I mean, a narrow
rectangle, right? The exact line
[1:11:25] xy line is has no width. So
you're never on the line.
[1:11:31] Actually, the exact point x, y,
z has no size the.is, a small
[1:11:35] sphere or a small, small globe,
right? If it's three dimension,
[1:11:39] so when you analyze and get down
to where there is no point, the
[1:11:44] point is the exact point is
where there's no point. It's
[1:11:47] just past running into future.
Thank you follow. So then that
[1:11:51] means there's no past. So the
past is also totally there. And
[1:11:56] there's also no future. Because
future it's all it's all a seat
[1:12:00] right here. I told echo Tala who
I love was a wonderful guy, and
[1:12:04] a great teacher, I think. And I
told him, I said, a million
[1:12:07] Americans, when you keep
teaching about now, that's good.
[1:12:11] But you really have to tell them
that that now contains all their
[1:12:16] future and all their past. So
it's not that it's not nothing
[1:12:20] now, in other words, they might
interpret otherwise with their
[1:12:22] new holistic thing from
materialism, that disconnect
[1:12:26] themselves from everything. But
instead of disconnecting in the
[1:12:29] real now, they're really
powerful. Now, it's where you
[1:12:32] connect it to everything from
that now, you're in the hours
[1:12:34] everywhere, like just like what
Alex Ferrari is gonna tell me.
[1:12:38] And that's great. That is that.
And that's really true. Because
[1:12:48] this embarr, and therefore,
whatever, even karma, which is
[1:12:52] the most dear thing to Buddha,
because it means it's actually a
[1:12:55] biological theory of ethics.
It's an ethical Darwinian ism
[1:12:59] karma. It's not just woowoo.
It's a real biological theory,
[1:13:03] scientific theory, which
includes all the wounds and
[1:13:06] wounds involved in being born
and reborn and how you're born
[1:13:09] and reborn. But that's very
difficult, but even that, and
[1:13:13] also, all descriptions of
relative processes are not
[1:13:17] absolute dogmas. And since the
absolute is the relative,
[1:13:22] infinite relative, therefore,
any theory is only relationally
[1:13:29] valid in a specific context. And
there's no final dogmas. And we
[1:13:33] have to go beyond all dogmas to
really experience and really be
[1:13:39] here everywhere. So I used to
teach rom Das. Here now there's
[1:13:44] no here. There's no now I knew
him when he was Richard Alpert.
[1:13:47] He was having real problem
because some Buddhists were
[1:13:49] telling him he was a Hindu. He
was saying, I'm a Hindu. He
[1:13:53] didn't say I'm a Hindu, but he
actually was a Hindu. From
[1:13:56] dialogue with point of view, he
don't ever leave grandma's
[1:13:58] thing. Anyway. He said, I'm a
Hindu, and I have a soul and I
[1:14:02] want to go be with the one. And
my Buddhist friends tell me you
[1:14:05] can't have a soul. What can I
do? Someone told Mark Epstein
[1:14:08] told me you could help me, Bob.
So I said to him, Well, I can't
[1:14:13] really help you around or says
you're more likely to be you're
[1:14:16] saying and I'm just whatever.
But you know who can help you? I
[1:14:19] know one yogi who could help
you. He says, who's that? I said
[1:14:22] Yogi Berra, Berra. I said, Yes.
Well, whatever Yogi say. I said,
[1:14:28] Yogi said, When you come to a
fork in the road, take it.
[1:14:39] He loved it. He went on going on
with a yogi.
[1:14:44] Listen, Yogi Bear was a modern
day yogi. There's no question in
[1:14:49] my mind that the wisdom that
that man threw out is
[1:14:53] remarkable. Bob, I'm going to
ask you a few questions. Ask all
[1:14:58] my guests you kind of wrap it
up. What is your definition of
[1:15:01] living a fulfilled life?
[1:15:03] Living a life is living happily.
And hopefully, with trust in the
[1:15:10] good in the power of the good.
at whatever stage you're able to
[1:15:15] understand it. True, but with
faith in the power of the good
[1:15:19] however you define it, therefore
not giving into fear of the bad,
[1:15:25] overwhelming the good. But to
me, its definition of meaningful
[1:15:29] actually really started when I
can't. So simply Piers Morgan
[1:15:34] asked him on an interview you
can find on YouTube, very short,
[1:15:38] but not the whole interview just
that he says, Oh, I've always
[1:15:42] wanted to ask you what's the
meaning of life? To those? Tell
[1:15:45] them a look. I don't know versus
me life is happiness is
[1:15:49] truthfulness. And here's where
Elrod Come on. And then he says,
[1:15:54] Yes, he said, reason to future
is a mystery. How's it going to
[1:16:01] be? So in the present, you have
hope, it will be something
[1:16:06] better. And that hope in the
present makes you happy. And
[1:16:12] then you carry on? Is your way
get despair? Then it's all
[1:16:16] terrible. So that's the meaning
of life. So I really I thought,
[1:16:21] it gets associated happiness
with hope. And with not being
[1:16:26] despair, that with the trust
that the better you can make it
[1:16:29] better in the future or someone
will you will someone else Jesus
[1:16:32] will put up? Well, you will.
This is important. You have to
[1:16:36] chip in as basically, it's
cliche.
[1:16:38] That's beautiful. That's
beautiful. Now, if you had a
[1:16:42] chance to go back in time and
speak to a little Bob, what
[1:16:44] advice would you give him?
[1:16:46] I would tell him, don't give in
to losing your temper. And don't
[1:16:55] ever go nuts with a temper
tantrum. And you be honest, you
[1:17:03] know, when you really blow up,
it's half theatrical, you know
[1:17:08] that. And be honest with
yourself, you use it to, to,
[1:17:13] like, save yourself, right? And
somebody should, but it's always
[1:17:17] harmful to you and to the other
long run, might temporarily
[1:17:22] scare somebody away. But it's a
bad you know, I, I got that from
[1:17:28] my little bit of abuse I had as
a child, someone more powerful
[1:17:32] than me, who used to beat me up.
And then I used to escalate
[1:17:37] emotionally, to sort of scare
them off the habit. So if I had
[1:17:44] if I would have listened to
myself, I would have said, Don't
[1:17:48] ever do that. Just you know, run
away or do what you can, but
[1:17:52] that that just absolutely
useless. losing your temper. I
[1:17:56] had a really hard temper. I got
in the face and made people
[1:18:02] unhappy and myself unhappy and
probably spoiled my circulatory
[1:18:06] system to some set cortisol.
[1:18:09] Well, I also had a little bit of
a temper when I was a younger
[1:18:12] man too. And to be and to be
fair, my daughters know how to
[1:18:16] get it out of me really quickly.
I don't know if your kids get
[1:18:20] out of you. But my kids get out
of me like that. They know what
[1:18:24] button to push when to push it.
[1:18:27] It's amazing. Always a little
bit power set with my with my
[1:18:32] later kids. By that time I was
so tested, although they might
[1:18:35] say Well, I'm still pretty
frightening and stuff, because I
[1:18:38] could still be loud, but I
actually never really lost them.
[1:18:42] And don't lose it of course, but
I didn't know how to get me
[1:18:45] angry.
[1:18:46] Yes. They still do. They still
[1:18:50] Oh yeah, absolutely. Now what is
your definition of God or
[1:18:55] Source?
[1:18:55] God? Well, my definition of God
is there. I really like what the
[1:19:03] god Brahma told Buddha. And I
really like the Jewish name of
[1:19:09] God, which they purposely made
unpronounceable why y h w h,
[1:19:16] which my mistake, sick friend
tells me the H means you're
[1:19:21] inhaling and exhaling, the y and
the W or inhale I forget which
[1:19:27] is which I think maybe ws exhale
the y's inhale, which are semi
[1:19:32] vowels, right? That's E and O.
You know the letter E I and you
[1:19:37] you know, so why, and then the
two H's are your breath. So that
[1:19:41] means that's what I love about
that too is that means that it's
[1:19:45] an awareness that God is not
separate from you. The
[1:19:48] Protestant thing is crazy
thinking of God is absolutely
[1:19:51] other because God is absolute.
Well, he makes the relative
[1:19:55] world without relating to it. I
mean, that's, that's crazy. You
[1:19:58] know, that's, that's, that's
mentally crippling if you're
[1:20:01] forced to believe some blind
faith, faith, reasonable faith
[1:20:05] is the goodness of life and the
universe. And so my definition
[1:20:10] of God is infinite energy of
goodness, as what it's all what
[1:20:17] it all is. So I commit to
pantheistic heresy for a score
[1:20:22] to progress in particular
Protestants would call, and I
[1:20:26] think most Asian religions do,
and most western mystical
[1:20:29] religions too, which is why
mystical aspects of all
[1:20:33] religions, I think, do feel that
they're because they have the
[1:20:36] mystic fields, one with God, you
know, the Sufi, the Hasidic.
[1:20:40] And, and so that means that God
is not separate. In fact, God is
[1:20:45] the enabler of all life. And
tight is the life force. You
[1:20:49] know, I would say, so that's my
definition is that
[1:20:52] unpronounceable thing, which is
inconceivable. And yet it's us
[1:20:58] it's love
[1:20:59] Beautiful. Now, what is love?
[1:21:03] And love is, I think, what
happens to intelligence, when it
[1:21:10] surrenders to that clear light,
bliss. So love is bliss
[1:21:16] overflowing, because infinite,
infinite energy is bliss, that
[1:21:22] is bliss. And yet, if you when
you realize that in a body that
[1:21:26] is not capable of absorbing
infinite place, because it would
[1:21:31] feel like it becomes like the
sky or something, because you're
[1:21:35] not yet a being that can make
many parties that are all
[1:21:40] simultaneously like the sky,
then that bliss then naturally
[1:21:45] overflows. And it because you
just want others to feel that
[1:21:49] and it resonates. And then the
key is, is it sensitive, though
[1:21:53] to others, because it knows that
another who's scared of the
[1:21:58] other because they still are
stuck on thinking I'm something
[1:22:01] separate from everything. When
they feel flooded with an
[1:22:04] energy, they're going to resist
it, they're going to pit they
[1:22:08] are so connection to the
Infinite Energy of all gods and
[1:22:13] all God and although against the
the flood of love and place, and
[1:22:19] therefore they're going to
experience this as if it's an
[1:22:21] intrusion. And they're going to
like some track into practically
[1:22:26] a hellish resistance. So this is
why the idea of omnipotence of
[1:22:31] that an active omnipotence that
imposes itself on even a
[1:22:36] delicate, fragile thing is very
negative, you know, it's kind
[1:22:42] of, it's like it's not good, so,
so that flood of love, accepts
[1:22:48] the resistance, and then becomes
like a movie producer, a
[1:22:54] creative artists, it becomes an
art, you know, compassion, it
[1:22:58] really is really hard. Because
the only way that a snail is
[1:23:03] going to come out of its shell
and expose it soft parts that
[1:23:07] can then feel pleasure and bliss
of connecting into the softness
[1:23:10] of infinite, quiet universe is,
if something amuses it and it
[1:23:19] said just overwhelmingly
attractive and seductive, and
[1:23:22] it's so beautiful, and I wonder,
and I want to embrace it. And
[1:23:27] that's the only thing so then
they become artists. You're like
[1:23:31] the, the name of the of the
sutra that is considered a sort
[1:23:35] of semi auto biography of the
Siddhartha, the prince who
[1:23:38] became the chakra is called
Lolita Vistara. And Lolita is
[1:23:43] from Lila which means to play.
And it can also mean a
[1:23:47] theatrical play Lolita. So it's
like the greatest show on earth.
[1:23:50] You know, VISTA means expansive
or magnificent. So that
[1:23:54] magnificent play is what it's
called, magnificent show. And so
[1:23:59] that's, that's, it's an art.
It's the art of I forgot to wish
[1:24:05] some what is love? Yeah, that's
so love is art, actually, of
[1:24:10] course, how to make the other.
It's simply defined, it's the
[1:24:17] happiness is the will to the
happiness of the Beloved. As it
[1:24:22] says, no, no, greed is no it
doesn't require require at all.
[1:24:26] You know what I mean? That
they'd be happy, so beautiful.
[1:24:29] It's a wonderful sort of thing.
[1:24:31] And finally, what does World
Peace look like to you?
[1:24:34] World that His Holiness says
World Peace to inner peace. I
[1:24:39] think and you know, I there's a
guy I love. I don't know if
[1:24:42] you've ever podcast that him.
He's sort of not so visible
[1:24:46] nowadays. I don't know. I think
he's still alive. Lives in
[1:24:48] Chandler. His name is David
Spangler.
[1:24:51] I've heard of him but I didn't
have him on the show.
[1:24:53] He when he was younger, he has
an amazing story, where he was
[1:24:57] raised to be one of those TV
like evangelist, his uncle was
[1:25:02] one. I think his father was one.
He was like a young
[1:25:06] Krishnamurti, Christian VanScoy
Krishna Murthy. And they're like
[1:25:10] 1112 or 13 or something. But
then around that time around
[1:25:14] puberty, he was in a lecture by
his uncle in a church and
[1:25:17] Sunday, where the uncle was
doing the whole rapture thing.
[1:25:23] And ever non Christian was
getting thrown in hell and all
[1:25:26] this kind of thing. And he, you
know, held up his hand
[1:25:29] apparently, he told me a story I
forget, I don't share my movie.
[1:25:34] 100% accurate. But basically, he
held up his hand. And he said,
[1:25:38] he protested to the uncle. I
like that. I don't believe God
[1:25:42] is going to be told me into so
many people. I don't believe
[1:25:45] that. That's wrong. Jesus
wouldn't do that. I don't agree
[1:25:48] with that. So then the uncle was
in red, charcoal heat, right? So
[1:25:52] then the uncle says, who's gonna
stop unless you're gonna be you
[1:25:57] know, it's putting his nephew in
his place, you know? So then he
[1:26:01] claims he told me the story. He
said, Yes. And then later, he
[1:26:07] was at Findhorn remember, the
60s to place in Scotland that
[1:26:12] used to grow the giant cabbages
and it was all and he channeled
[1:26:18] that New Age, birth of a new age
book, which was supposedly from
[1:26:22] John, he was channeling John.
And they thought at the time,
[1:26:25] and I think probably it was John
of Patmos, I actually think he
[1:26:28] was correcting
misinterpretations of
[1:26:31] Revelation. And what he said
was, that the revelation has
[1:26:35] already happened. In other
words, the Second Coming is on
[1:26:39] is on. It's happening. And you
already if you choose love, you
[1:26:46] stand on a filament of light,
like in a while movie, you know,
[1:26:52] the James Cameron movie, Avatar,
Avatar element of light. If you
[1:26:56] choose love now, and you stand
on that filament of light,
[1:27:00] you're happy, and you're loved,
and they might kill you, but
[1:27:03] you're happy, and then you'll be
reborn happy, and it's already
[1:27:06] fine. If you are, stay with
terror, you won't see that
[1:27:12] filament of light and you'll see
darkness coming at you from
[1:27:14] every side, and you'll fight
like hell. You know, and you'll
[1:27:18] fight like hell to save
yourself. And you know, you'll
[1:27:21] be ruthless with other people,
you kind of live in hell, you'll
[1:27:23] make health for yourself and
others around you. So that he
[1:27:28] dedicated his life to that. And
I got so in love with David
[1:27:32] Spangler because we have a
prophecy in actually Indian
[1:27:37] Tantra, Indian Esoteric
Buddhism, but also and actually
[1:27:42] indirectly, in Hinduism to about
the 10, David or Vishnu, called
[1:27:46] the Wheel of Time, time million,
Allah chakra, it's called Lux,
[1:27:50] the initiation Dalai Lama used
to give all masks all over the
[1:27:53] world 34 times, which is
unusual, unknown in Tibetan
[1:27:57] history, it's like once in a
lifetime, a great Lama will do
[1:27:59] that initiation. But he did 34
times because of the world
[1:28:02] situation. And they predict this
kind of New Age type of like a
[1:28:07] little bit like Armageddon
thing, 400 years from now. And
[1:28:11] I'm very devoted, I love the
text and blah, blah, blah. And
[1:28:15] then they have astrologers who
agree with that, and they say,
[1:28:18] that's what this follows. He
said, they have their own
[1:28:20] metrology system. Very good one.
But I could say, I don't agree
[1:28:25] with that. I'm not agree with
that. I'm a child of the 60s,
[1:28:29] next week, you know, not the
planet cannot take this like oil
[1:28:35] industry. And that was before
even though wetlands knew about
[1:28:39] climate, why it's vital as we
do. And, of course, that we did,
[1:28:42] at that time, very much be aware
of the nuclear potential in a
[1:28:45] nuclear holocaust potential,
which is the other one, the
[1:28:47] hatred, one and the greed, one,
you know, those are the two
[1:28:50] planets, destroying things. The
planet can't take it for 400
[1:28:53] more years, I used to argue with
Obama's neighbor, it down, but
[1:28:57] one Lama of mine, he agreed with
me. He went against the text.
[1:29:02] And I did and so David, and I
really met with that, you know,
[1:29:06] so So I think that Kalachakra is
here that knew that Jesus is
[1:29:11] here, that Muhammad is here, in
a good way, not that nasty, you
[1:29:16] have to be a Muslim, but a good
way like God is love and God is
[1:29:19] beyond any version of anything.
He said to one nation in one
[1:29:24] language or another language,
that force of goodness is more
[1:29:29] Allah Rockman you know, the
Compassionate bargain. And
[1:29:33] because that tradition has
lasted, in spite of all the
[1:29:35] conquering that went on by the
conquerors. And so that's my
[1:29:40] definition of world peace is be
in love with the world and be an
[1:29:45] artist and be kind to people
around you. And that is world
[1:29:51] peace. And the dictators, you
know, are doing a lot of dampers
[1:29:55] right now. You know, slow crania
I'm a completely for them.
[1:30:00] Actually, lessons didn't have
there's a Buddhist ethic about
[1:30:04] defending yourself, or non
violence means if someone's
[1:30:07] genocidal invading, and you have
the power to stop them do so.
[1:30:11] You know, because otherwise
they'll get you to do even more
[1:30:14] evil of killing all of you say
concrete, I don't have the
[1:30:17] power, you should surrender non
violently, and let them because
[1:30:21] then at least they you will have
killed them on their way in. And
[1:30:25] you know, you'll have to be
happy and maybe that will get
[1:30:27] them to calm down. But it
happened Chinese are Seven Years
[1:30:31] in Tibet still doing genocide.
They are now they're having to
[1:30:34] stop. But they will. They will.
They will not even we, that we
[1:30:39] have Native American people are
still here. And we're starting
[1:30:41] to honor them a little bit.
Finally, one of them is
[1:30:43] Secretary of Interior. And they
know they, they will help us
[1:30:48] restore this, that desert. Isn't
that polluted place and isn't
[1:30:52] that really great? I know one
Stanford graduate environmental
[1:30:57] lady from Oduber, I think,
Chippewa and she says, When the
[1:31:01] deep ecologists say that planet
Earth, Mother Earth will not
[1:31:05] miss the humans messing it up,
they are wrong. They might not
[1:31:09] miss the industrial greedy
people. But we Native people,
[1:31:13] they'll miss us because we take
care of her. And we worship her.
[1:31:16] We love her, you know, they're
learning. We're teaching them to
[1:31:20] do that. So I think world peace
means be happy ourselves. And I
[1:31:26] even have a slogan, I put in my
in my earlier book, why that all
[1:31:29] matters. I put a slogan there.
Which is, it is our duty to be
[1:31:35] so happy channels, so much
happiness, that even if they
[1:31:40] kill us, we'll die happy. That's
a surefire turns off a standing
[1:31:47] ovation. Believe me when you say
that in his speech, people are
[1:31:50] about to go yay. Or they read
the Book of the Dead and really
[1:31:57] again, there's no dead. No. Yes,
it's it's a bigger life for us.
[1:32:03] And if you're cool, loving it,
you can't help him get an even
[1:32:08] better neighborhood. Better mom
better dad better body.
[1:32:13] Bob where can people find out
more about you, your book, the
[1:32:16] new book and all the other works
that you've done over the years.
[1:32:21] I would say there's my latest
Hay House wisdom is bliss. This
[1:32:25] is so much fun. It really has
all kinds of main points, I
[1:32:30] think where I am so far. But you
know, and actually, I am now
[1:32:33] doing an online reading of it.
Commentary. It's quite dense. So
[1:32:38] I'm pathetic, of someone trying
to read it. And, but it's really
[1:32:44] worthwhile. And this one, I want
to recommend it my best seller,
[1:32:47] more than a million companies in
20 languages, but very slowly,
[1:32:50] so it didn't cry together in New
York town. But since 1980s, and
[1:32:56] that my church lectured the dead
right, put a real title
[1:33:00] underneath. They will let me put
it the book of liberation to
[1:33:04] understanding in the between
state, that's the actual name.
[1:33:08] And it's a little wordy. It's a
little wordy, but I understand
[1:33:11] why the publisher didn't let you
put it.
[1:33:14] So famous, but the point is, the
key thing about it is there's no
[1:33:17] dead. Nobody says that. Although
this is where Helmut Newton,
[1:33:23] you're not I mean, Michael
Newton, you know him I bet.
[1:33:25] I don't know. I Oh, yes. I know.
Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[1:33:29] So well, you know, he's Rich
Martini, you must know Intel and
[1:33:29] Yes.
[1:33:33] I've never had him. We've never
had him on never had him on,
[1:33:36] you're gonna have a fun talk
with Richard Martini. Someday
[1:33:39] I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you an
email introduce who you are.
[1:33:41] They're like, he'll love you.
And anyway, that's Michael
[1:33:47] Newton was a psychiatrist who
did a past life regression. And
[1:33:51] then he got, you got many people
saying what happened in between
[1:33:54] past lives. And then you are a
composite of a kind of, you
[1:33:59] know, Harry Potter's, whatever
the name of that, that Hogwarts,
[1:34:05] allegory in the sky, where you
go when you die, and then you
[1:34:08] meet your soul mates and then
you come back and blah, blah,
[1:34:11] blah. And it's really fun. And
when the venting allows that
[1:34:15] because the more the more
awakened you are, the more
[1:34:17] enlightened you're, you're too
big as a field as a being to
[1:34:21] just fit into one body. So you
can have a new life like if one
[1:34:24] of your relatives they pass
away, they may be already on
[1:34:27] their way in a new great life.
And yet, you still can talk to
[1:34:30] them, because they are more than
just weren't fitting in. They're
[1:34:34] not yet infinite necessarily,
but they they can be still
[1:34:39] helping their successors, you
know, their their relatives and
[1:34:44] friends don't unfortunately
mentioned that exactly. Except
[1:34:47] because they think you have to
be a Buddha to do that. But I
[1:34:49] think that's possible. Like my,
my, my wife keeps introducing me
[1:34:53] to new things that don't fit
into any doctrinaire idea, but
[1:34:57] they're really great. She's my
my guru of the day. I have the
[1:35:01] decades five decades six
decades.
[1:35:04] As as mine is, as well, my
friend is mine. This is, Bob,
[1:35:08] it's been such a pleasure, my
friend. It's been such a
[1:35:10] pleasure and honor speaking to
you, thank you so much for not
[1:35:13] only for this conversation, but
for all the work you've done
[1:35:16] over the decades to help
enlighten and awaken the world.
[1:35:18] So I appreciate you, my friend.
[1:35:20] I'm very honored to be with you.
And I'm happy to tell my wife.
[1:35:25] Well, I didn't channel but I was
still had fun. And so we had a
[1:35:29] good time. I did have a chat. I
have channeled I have a oracle.
[1:35:35] But I just wanted that line. I
just want to say for in Alex
[1:35:39] Ferrari context, I had a vision
once that there will be no
[1:35:45] nuclear war. Very powerful. I
completely trust it. I do. And I
[1:35:52] don't want to. We don't have
time to go into that in detail.
[1:35:54] But I would and I would I would
agree with you because that is
[1:35:57] what has been told to me as
well. There are guardrails,
[1:36:01] there are guardrails put on
humanity because we as a as a
[1:36:04] consciousness, have chosen to go
in one direction we could have
[1:36:08] chosen to go that way. But we
decided as as as a species as a
[1:36:12] consciousness to go towards the
light to go towards the
[1:36:16] Enlightened path. And that's why
conversations like this are
[1:36:19] happening now. Because I imagine
when you were around in the 60s,
[1:36:23] they weren't talking about
sexism and channelers. And, and
[1:36:26] design. It's not publicly. Yes,
yeah. So So now there is a lot
[1:36:31] more interest in this kind of
stuff.
[1:36:32] So it's important work for
encouraging people to trust you
[1:36:36] know, trust life.
[1:36:38] I appreciate you my friend.
Thank you again.
[1:36:40] Thank you, Alex. Thank you so
much. Good luck to you, and your
[1:36:44] kids and your family and
everyone may they all be really
[1:36:47] happy world peace. Let's enjoy
world peace together.
[1:36:51] Thanks for watching. Click on
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